
Mary Cassatt, The Conversation, 1896
Yesterday I had lunch with Anina and Sydney. It was a truly convivial occasion, not because the food and drink were so great, but the conversation — now that was delectable, and to borrow a phrase from Virginia Woolf, “fringed with joy.” We ranged about, through the last ten years and into the future a little, too, almost as though we were out for a ramble together in the countryside. Dilemmas, predictions, pleasures, disappointments, jokes, philosophical musings and plenty of laughter — it was the kind of intimate conversation that nourishes and energizes, makes one feel spirited, and glad (for the moment at least!) to be a human being.
From time to time I have participated in these types of fully collaborative jazz combo-like conversations, but it’s usually a duet. Yesterday we were a trio, which made the rhythms and trading of solo riffs more complex and artful.
Just last week I had some connected, stimulating conversations with my friend Erika, who stayed at my house for a couple of nights. The conversation had a sense of unity and flow; it was hypothetical, frolicsome, and tender; we talked about art, music, offspring, changing perspectives, and careers. The feeling of radiance, connection, and vitality caused us to stay up too late both nights, gabbing away.
And I must not forget some great talks about creativity and spatial sense with friends Robert and Larry — so it has been a week brimful of conversation of the very best kind.
You can see why I have been thinking about it. What are the ingredients, the conditions necessary for such a magical conversation? From experience I can say definitively that you don’t have to be old pals for it to happen; it can occur with someone you have just met. Participants have to be in that psychic space between inner private self and outer public self that Patsy Rodenburg calls second circle and Donald Winnicott called transitional space. And what else? It does seem like magic, doesn’t it?
I have some tentative thoughts. First, an abundance of new ideas. Then, the courage to put forth one’s own convictions, and to speak in one’s own authentic voice. There must be respect, and a mutual attempt to be understanding, rather than overbearing. Also a full acceptance of the other, and an openness — a heart that can be touched, and that stirs in response.
That’s as far as I have gotten. I would love to hear your corrections or additions to my list, and other thoughts as well.
To close, here’s Bertrand Russell’s description of his first meeting with Joseph Conrad:
We talked with continually increasing intimacy. We seemed to sink through layer after layer of what was superficial, till gradually both reached the central fire. It was an experience unlike any other that I have known. We looked into each others’ eyes, half appalled and half intoxicated to find ourselves together in such a region. The emotion was as intense as passionate love, and at the same time all-embracing. I came away bewildered, and hardly able to find my way among ordinary affairs.